Is the Customer Always Right? When to Fire a Client...

Intro & Welcome

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Being an agency owner isn't for the faint of heart. Strategy, market conditions, building a team that lasts. This is From the Field, where Josh and Joe help you do it all without losing your mind.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Hey there and welcome to From the Field. I'm with my man Josh Rickenaugh, who is rocking the day. How's everything going? My man, my man. Happy to be here. Well, glad you're here as always. If you didn't show up, I don't know what I would do. So just continue to be here on time. It works out well.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

It might be our highest-rated episode.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

It might be. So here's the here's the question of the day, Josh.

Is the Customer Always Right?

SPEAKER_00 0:37

There's an old saying that we've heard for decades, and that is the customer is always right. Right. So we we've got to bend over backwards. Our job is to make sure, and in pretty much every industry, that the customer's happy and that they're always right. But the question I have for you is Is there a time when the customer is not right and they actually get to a point where you no longer want them to be your client or customer?

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Ooh, the old question of should we fire a client? Yes. This

The Real Quote: Matters of Taste

SPEAKER_01 1:09

one's a spicy one, right? Like I I think people forget the second part of that quote, right? It's the customer is always right in matters of taste. Like it's been it's been cut off in modern world. It's just the customer is always right. Like if if they want ketchup on their burger, they're right. If they want onions on their hot dog, they're right. Like the customer is always right. If they just say, you know, cursed words to your staff, they're not right. Like that doesn't make them right. So it's not always the customer's always right. I think they lose the second part of it. So I think it's funny when that happens. But yeah, I mean you have people in your day where it's probably better to move on. You know, uh we we all have seen these people, whether you go out to a restaurant and there's nothing is right for it. Sure. You know, nothing. You watch them be super mean to these staff. Now, we get fired every day, right? So if a client leaves us, they fire us. They, I'm gonna use another provider, whether it's for price or for service or whatever it may be. And that's okay. I think uh getting rid of the client is a little viewed a little differently, and I'm not sure it should be. I think there's situations where the client has just done things and it maybe it's just not a good fit, maybe it's just a bad attitude, maybe they're having a bad day, but we've certainly had times we've had to move

When to Actually Fire a Client

SPEAKER_01 2:25

on from clients.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

So so let me ask you a couple questions on a follow-up to that. First one is what's what's the the approach or the the tonality you have if you get in a position where you decide this is no longer a fit and I'm gonna talk to the client directly. So uh what's the energy around that conversation? And then can you expand on um maybe two or three things, you know, that that you can remember that have triggered you to say, okay, it's it's time. Like the no longer are we gonna do this and moved on from that person?

Crossing the Line: Abusive Language

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Yeah, I mean, the only time we've ever really had to have a conversation is is when it has crossed a line. Okay. You know, whether that's abusive language, that's things that just like I tell people, but you can yell at me. Like I'm kind of like the referee. Like you can yell at me, my name's on the sign. But like, we're not gonna be swearing at, you know, 19-year-olds answering the phone. We're just not gonna be sure that. You know, you can yell at me, you can tell me everything's wrong, how everything's my fault, how I ruined your life, that your rate went up $2, and you know, your friend Johnny pays $4 a year for $8 million of coverage and everything's great. No, I'm wrong. I can take it. But when they start, you know, doing the swearing, when they start doing the threatening stuff, like we just can't allow it. So I mean, there's been a few times where that's happened, um, you know, where they've truly crossed a line where it's you know a safety work environment or or or things like that that it just can't be acceptable. I think a far more common one, right, is that 80-20 rule. That idea that 20% of our clients take up 80% of our time. And and I don't think that's a fire of the client situation, right? I think that's just some people just need their handheld a little bit more. And and I think agents if anything is inconvenient, want to get rid of them. And um that's not at all what we're talking about today. We're talking about a situation where, you know, they have really crossed a line, they have said something inappropriate, been done something inappropriate, crossed a language line, says something threatening, where you've got to fire them. So it probably gets thrown out more than it should, you know, fire the client. But at the same time, there there have been situations.

Document Everything: The CYA Approach

SPEAKER_00 4:27

So what do you think about people that that refuse to actually even beat with you? So obviously the client has that. So from the standpoint of, I mean from the standpoint of uh ENO, just CYA in general, but you have a client that, you know, they've always got issues, they've always got concerns, they're, you know, that they're willing to always be uh, you know, loud. They take up all your time, but they refuse to actually sit down with you. So you can go through and make sure that all the T's are crossed and all the dies are odded or I's are dotted. You see that, man? Gotta be careful with those dies are dotted, yes. Um is that something where you would ever move on from a client if they refuse to sit down, or is that something that you just document? Yeah Yeah, I I mean we just document people are busy.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Like I really try to be very understanding with almost anybody. I mean, if they don't cross, you know, certain barriers, we document the heck out of it. I mean, I I I tell our team, I'm like, the CYA cannot be enough on those type of people. They're always trying to say, well, you told me this, or I talked to someone in your office. Well, actually, you talked to this person in my office at 111 p.m. on September 2nd or whatever it may be. And this is what was said. Oh, I'm not sure I talked to them. No, this is who it was. They documented it perfectly, and this is who it was. And, you know, they'll kind of stop that because I think I think people get away with it. It's kind of like eating half of your ribs and then sending them back and saying they were helpful. Right. Right. We we know people are gonna pull that off. They get away with it once or twice, they kind of get on the naughty list of the restaurant. So we're we're a big believer of take care of anybody. People have bad days, um, even just cranky. But we're more of a CYA than than a fire that type

Having Your Team's Back

SPEAKER_01 6:09

of client.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

The uh one thing I've noticed time and time again is uh clients that that tend to be uh rude and and over the top, and like you said, will will drop F bombs and and do what they do. They tend to only do that with staff. So it's funny because you'll have staff say to you, hey, you know, Mr. Mr. Jones did this and this is what they said. I'm I don't feel comfortable. I I'm I'm very upset. And you call them and it's a totally different conversation. So I I think it's it's funny how they kind of pick and choose sometimes, but I think the other thing that you bring up is it goes a long way with your team, either way. If you have somebody that's out of control and the bottom line is you're trying to make sure they stay as a client from a monetary perspective, and you overlook what it is that your team member is feeling and you don't address it, I think, I think you lose some respect and some trust. And I think the opposite's true. When you're the one that reaches out, you've got their back, I think, I think it increases loyalty quite a bit as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

And I've had situations before where a client was just having a bad day and they said something to a staff member that there's no way they should have said. And, you know, I called the client, had a one-on-one. The guy goes, I'm really sorry, man. I just, you know, this was going on, this was going. It was all stuff that had nothing to do with trust. Man, he called, he made it right. He's been a great client for a decade. Like that can happen. We've all done and I mean, like, we none of us should be judged by our worst moments, right? And you gotta be understanding of people. The times are tough out there, things are bad, you know, economy, this, that, the other. Somebody might have just had bad news they heard. We don't know what they're going through. You know, uh a pass once, if you address it and to have your team's back, I think does go a long way. But we we we give them a chance, right, to make things right. I I don't think you should just oh, they said something rude, we should get rid of it. Sure. Well, maybe your staff said something rude. Maybe uh communication that our company sent came off as rude. We don't know the whole story. So I've had both those happen, but I do think having your employees back, especially in regards to language safety, those kind of things, you know, and just establishing you don't have to put up with that. Like they're gonna say stuff to me, it is what it is. You're you don't have to put up with that. It does go a long way. For sure.

The "Problem Client" Excuse

SPEAKER_01 8:29

But I have one for you, and I I need your opinion on this. So, so I I also think that people use this as an excuse. All right. Like I think people get labeled as problem clients. Maybe because you dropped the ball and they're bad for a legitimate reason. Yes. And it's just easier to say, hey man, you got to get this person away from me, reassign them to somebody else. That you can't make Johnny happy, you can't make Linda happy, uh, whatever. And it's like, actually, Linda just asked you to do that and you didn't do it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what what what do you see on that? I mean, am I reading this the right way, or is this kind of a one-off, or where am I at?

SPEAKER_00 9:09

I remember when I was a kid one time, we had a we had a gun case and we had a pool table. We would run around the pool table and you'd throw balls like dodgeball. And I took a one of those rag balls that is heavy, and my buddy came around the corner and I whipped it and he ducked and I shattered the entire gun case. And my my parents, my parents were were uh they were with friends and they were out. And I just thought, I'll go to bed. I'll just go to bed and it'll all be fine. And there's glass and wood and everything everywhere. And I remember laying in bed and hearing the garage open, and it was about 20 minutes later, and I just hear Joe from two stories down. And uh, and I couldn't just avoid it by just getting rid of the problem and leaving it. And I do see exactly that. I have seen multiple people that have come to me through the years and said, hey, I want to, I want to get this person transferred away. And you try to figure out why. And intuitively you can figure, you can just feel something's something's amiss, right? Something's not quite right. And most of the time it is, it's a staff mistake or it's a mistake that they made that now cost the client more money. It caused a problem at claims time. There's something that that now there has to be a real conversation where somebody's got to be accountable and own the fact that that they screwed something up. And as you and I know, I mean, a lot of the times you and you know claim it might be 2,500 out of pocket. Um you've got you you've got a lot of risk. So what they decide to do is I'm not gonna mess with it. Let's let's get them transferred and somebody else can deal with the issue. So I've absolutely seen the the transfer process done as a way to skate, um skate a mistake that somebody made. Uh I I don't see it a lot, but I've I've seen it at least five times in the last 12 years that I could that I could tell you the cases about. So it definitely happens.

The Serial Agency Hopper

SPEAKER_01 11:05

I always like the uh, you know, the call you get from a a customer that has the same insurance that you work for, and uh I need to switch to you. You know, when you when you first start, and you want anybody for any reason, and they'll tell you, oh, this person did a bad job, this person did this. And you pull it up and they've had like four agents in three years, and every one of them is stupid. Right, right. And you're like, well, wait, wait a second here. Like we had somebody that was they had a Corvette, and uh she'd figured out if she called customer service and took it out of coverage this morning and then called this afternoon, they would put it on and back and basically get free coverage. Yeah. She did it 52 times in one. And and I was like, hey, we had a meeting. I'm like, listen, this obviously isn't the intention. Oh, she called and got reassigned and said I was was rude and wasn't taking good care of her. So the next person's like, oh, I think she's lovely. Three months later, he's like, Man, you were right about her. Oh my gosh, she called. I wouldn't do this. She told me I was terrible. She called and got another agent. Like, there is something to be said for. There, there are problematic clients that kind of get passed around. So once they've had three or four of them, my guess is the client is just as culpable as the agent as

Exit Calls: When You Get Fired

SPEAKER_01 12:16

well.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yes, I I totally agree. Um, I'm gonna ask you just a little bit of an offshoot question on the back end of this session, real quick. The the times when you've gotten fired by a client. And I know some organizations, they they don't allow the agency owner to reach out to figure out why, right? And that's so they don't put the client in a position to where they feel uncomfortable. And especially, you know, especially if this is internal, right? Because there's times inside of companies where people transfer to your peers for whatever reason. But a good business owner wants to wants to know. So let's assume, um, let's assume you had the ability if you wanted to to reach out. Do you have someone on your team that that makes those outbound calls to figure out what's happened and if there's something that you could have done on your team?

Keeping the Door Open

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Always.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Um we do that, no matter why they leave, right? Uh and and just, hey, not not trying to, you know, give you a new price. We obviously couldn't change that anyway. But just we are curious about a few things. And really the main things we're asking about is like not just why, but like what what was the cause? You know, what what was the the straw, or or was it just a little thing? And then also, you know, we want them to know that just because the timing isn't right now doesn't mean that door's closed. Sure. And I think when when you know, maybe they they got a teaser rate, or maybe just they had a bad interaction with claims department, or just they didn't like the way our hours were or something. Letting them know, hey, just because the timing's not right now doesn't mean that we're always done. You know, our door's open. And the other thing I found is very important is just asking for permission. Like, would it be okay if I called you back in six months and in a year? Very few times, no matter if they left for angry reasons or not, do they say, don't ever call me? Usually it's, well, yeah, if anything ever changes, you can. And we've gotten a lot of those people back because it's not always greener over there and and uh it's there. But it it's a tough thing. And I and I don't know if I'm in leadership, if I would change the rules any different, right? Like we know different companies and what their rules are, but do we really want everybody calling everybody all the time? Why'd you switch to Jimmy? Why'd you switch to you know Johnny? And it's not a good client experience. We wish it didn't happen anywhere, but it does. So yeah, I don't know if I have a good answer for that part.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

No, but I think you're right. I think 100% of the time when people go to competitors, you can't assume it's always rate. And you you need to need to ask. And like you said, the the again, the tonality, the energy around the question, not to shame people, but to be able to say, you know, Josh, you're the type of client I want to have. And if you're leaving to go elsewhere, we have to understand why, because we don't want to lose more Josh's out of out of this agency. So can you talk me through it? There's so much that can be learned from that. And I think I think you're leaving them with a good taste in their mouth. And like you said, all of a sudden in six months or 12 months, when that teaser rate falls off, you're able to recapture that. So um I think that's a whole nother session, but putting people in that funnel as they fall off, we've talked about in the past, but I think that's a a perfect time for it.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah,

Where's Your Line?

SPEAKER_01 15:19

I think, you know, for me, really when the topic comes up about, you know, us moving off of a client instead of the other way around, it's really only a situation of is there a line crossed? Other than that, like people have bad days. You know, we need to be understanding, yes, some clients take more time than others. And in a perfect world, you'd have all low maintenance clients and everything, but that's not how the good Lord built us, right? Some people just want to have their hand held a little bit more. And and we should be there for the people that we can help uh every time we can. So while we do have a topic like fire your client, I mean, realistically, it's just about clarifying like when is it okay to step in and help your team and create a good work environment and create a safe place that's valued? And when is it just letting off steam? And I think everybody's gonna have their own line, but you know, we know where ours is at, our team is comfortable where it's at. And I think it's important to have a conversation with the rest of the industry.

Closing & Call to Action

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah, I think that's a great spot to end this episode. So with that, Josh and I just want to thank you for tuning in. As always, you can reach us if you like this venue of face-to-face and having the visual, YouTube at From the Field. If you like the audio side or you want to pick it up while driving, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, all the major platforms you can find us on. And then Instagram and TikTok, you can find us at FTF Guys if you just want to watch some short clips to decide which route you want to go. So we appreciate you being here. Josh, as always, it's a pleasure hanging out with you, and we will see you next time.