Episode 9: Wrong Habits or Wrong Career?

Intro & Welcome

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Being an agency owner isn't for the faint of heart. Strategy, market conditions, building a team that lasts. This is From the Field, where Josh and Joe help you do it all without losing your mind.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Welcome everybody to another episode of From the Field Podcast. Josh, how's the day going? It's going, buddy. Good to see you. I mean, good to see you too. So a couple things before we jump in today. First thing from the standpoint of platforms, just wanted to let you know on the audio side, if you prefer to hear us on the audio side, Spotify, Apple, all the major podcasts, you can find us that direction. If you like this interface where you've got the video and it feels more interactive to you, YouTube from the field, you can find us there. And then you'll see us on a lot of the other platforms like TikTok, um, Instagram. We are FTF guys when it comes to those. So we appreciate you being part of the From the Field family. And with that said, we've had multiple leaders share with us recently that they have shared this podcast with their entire teams. And we know how meaningful that is. So when you trust enough in the information that we're sharing to share it with your teams, that's a big deal. And it's a big deal to Josh and I. So we just want to say thank you for allowing us to be able to be part of your team, even if it's an indirect way. So um thanks

I Don't Wanna Be a Salesperson

SPEAKER_00 1:24

much. So starting off today, Josh, what the idea is whether or not there are certain red flags or blind spots for people that are that are watching that determine whether or not this could possibly be the wrong career for them, or maybe it's blind spots that if they were aware of and that they tweaked, they could actually find a lot more success. So I'm gonna start off with one of those. And I've talked about it on previous episodes, but it's one that, again, it keeps me up at night. And it's this concept of I don't want to be a salesperson. So I see this a lot, and I see it with some people that truly aren't cut out for what we do. They're just, they're not wired the way they need to be to be able to find success in this industry. But then I see people that that that same thought process just limits their overall success. And I think the one thing I want to touch on starting is it's universal. Josh Rickenaugh, you are one of the best in the entire industry. You don't want to be a salesperson either. Right. So so you end up in a position where you decide how it is that you're gonna set up your business, your, your, your talk tracks, the way you approach people to be a discussion partner. So you feel as if you're actually helping and you're not trying to sell. So I I want to go through both of those real quick. The the first one I see are the people that are never gonna change and they utilize the idea of I'm not a salesperson into the fact that they don't have to do their job well. And what that looks like is I'm not gonna make outbound calls to my clients when it comes to specific planning areas inside of my actual reviews or my initial appointments. I'm not going to ask all the questions I need to ask because all of a sudden the client may feel like they're they're put in a spot where they think I'm trying to sell them something when the truth is I'm actually trying to uncover what their situation looks like so I can make recommendations. And these individuals will never lead the client, right? We know clients in general, they want to be led. Sometimes they want to collaborate and walk together, but they want a direction. But there's a there's a subset of people that no matter what, they're never going to get out of their comfort zone and do that. And I think if you're watching this and you know deep down you're never gonna put yourself in a position to be uncomfortable by leading clients and asking questions and making recommendations, there's probably other roles that are better for you. The second group, though, is the one that can overcome this, but they're not really aware. It's it's it truly is a blind spot. So instead of tweaking what they're doing and getting better at their craft, they just go to the fact that I'm not a salesperson. So that's not what I do. And it really limits their ability to be the one that becomes the advisor for their clientele. And so to me, I think that's one of the biggest pieces, time and time again. I see with people that are struggling, is they go back to this idea of I don't want to be uncomfortable. I don't want the clients to be uncomfortable. And therefore, I'm not gonna do as good of a job at my job because I've got a built-in excuse. So I don't know what your thoughts are as many people that come to you for your advice, but if you ever see that, or what's your thoughts are on what you're seeing that's either telling you that people shouldn't be part of the industry or things that they're doing that are limiting their success.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Yeah, I mean, I think really just choose your uncomfortable, right? I mean, when do you want to be uncomfortable? Do you want to you don't want to call, you don't want to you know talk to your clients now? Well, what if they have a loss? You know, what if they have something that wasn't already discussed? You know, to me, it's you're gonna be uncomfortable now or you're gonna be uncomfortable later. You know, and you gotta decide that. Early in your career, it's tough all the way around. You're you're relying on friends, you're relying on family, you know, you're calling your your natural market, but you wanna do a good job for them too. I mean, there's that idea that you want to help them out. You know, once you're licensed, you know, more than 85% of your clients, you know, just about the industry and about insurance. But I think of it like this: I did not want to go into this. We grew up, we had the stereotypical uh insurance agent, you know, uh Cadillac, golf clubs in the back, shows up once a year to my parents' house, and we didn't have, you know, a lot. And it was it was scary. You gotta buy this, you gotta buy this, you gotta do this, you're gonna get sued. We didn't have enough to get sued for. Sure. But we were sure we were gonna get sued, right? So, what was my parents' solution? The the big guy in the Cadillac and the red shirt leaves, and and all of a sudden we can't have friends over for like three weeks because we're gonna get sued. Like, I don't know what the hell we're gonna get sued for, but we were gonna get sued. And and I didn't like that, man. Like I wanted to be the opposite of that. So that's what I thought of this industry. And it's not until you see the interaction you have that these people have to have insurance, right? This is not a product that you're you're just pitching an idea that, hey, what if you paid me money in case your house burns down? Like your bank makes you have it. Right. Like choose somebody you trust that's knowledgeable that you want to work with. And I think that just realizing that the product that you're selling, right, they already have to have or they already have. You're just asking them to work with you and have you take a look at it. That helps a lot of people overcome that bad crutch, maybe, if not a habit, of of, well, I'm just not a salesman. Well, number one, don't try the career if you don't want to talk to people. But number two, just stop relying that on as an excuse because it doesn't, it doesn't bear weight. Like you're not, you're having a discussion

Choose Your Uncomfortable

SPEAKER_01 6:56

with them.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Yes. And you know, you bring up such a good point with pick your uncomfortable. Is it is it now or is it at claim time? And I think it's I think it's that thought process of I'm not going to be uncomfortable at claim time. Like I'm passionately not going to allow that, that allows people to to ask the right questions and to really be proactive. So that's a great point.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

I mean, let's look at a CYA here, right? Like if you're a person that naturally does not want to ask these things, just tell them, hey, listen, I just want to make sure you and I are both covered if there was ever something going on. This is what I'm going to go through. And if you go through and document you asked all these things, right? They have a clear understanding of what they're paying for. You've clearly given them the options and let the client decide. Like you're an educator at this position, not a salesperson. And if you change that around and just here are all of your options, I want you to make an educated, you know, consumer decision. Listen, everybody's on the same page. There's not a lot of misunderstandings come claim time.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

No, that's right on. And the last thing I'm going to say to that, then I want to hear something on your mind. Um the only time that people can cross the line is when they do give the client good information and the client understands what they've learned, and then they make a decision that's different than maybe what you and I would think they should do. Then if you start to really apply pressure, you're becoming a salesperson. But like you said, once I've covered everything and I feel like you understand, it's your plan. I've got the monkey off of my back.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah, and we all know those schmucky, schleppy salespeople. And they're they're in the industry, right? And some of them do really well. Uh, I just can't imagine it. Like I just couldn't go up to everybody I know all the time, be like, hey man, when are you gonna let me quote your car insurance? Hey, man, when are you gonna? And we know those people. Like, oh, it just feels ooey. And God bless them if they can do it. I I I just I can't. It just feels weird. Like, I want to do a great job. I want you to kind of understand that. I want you to know that I'm there if you need anything, that if you ever want to have that discussion, I'd be happy to. But man, I just again, God bless them if they can do it, but that's just not how uh I think you and I were built.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

I agree. So what do you think? What what comes to mind is one of the main things that you're seeing.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Yeah,

Letting the Day Run You

SPEAKER_01 9:05

I mean, if you think of like habits that that I think people get into, it's it's they walk into their day waiting for the day to tell them what's gonna happen, right? You know, they they they they don't have a plan for the day. And they watch new agents that come in, and just because they don't have a large client load, that they're just kind of waiting for something to direct them instead of walking in and just you know knocking the day out uh you know the way you want to, right? They wait for the day to come tell them what's going on. And I think it's just a bad habit, whether it's the structure in your day or we've talked about calendaring, but I think letting the day run you is a really, really bad habit that can turn into really, really one of those things where you're like, I'm not sure I'm good for the career. It just might be how you're setting up your day. You're setting yourself up for failure.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Yeah, that that's a great, that's a great point. So over time, did you find sorry, that's my phone. Can you hear that ringing? I could. It's actually through here, so we'll ignore it. Um so my my apologies there. What with that said, did you find over time that when you started, you let the day come to you? And then as you have evolved, that you've now controlled the day?

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Yeah, I think it's a natural evolution. And as you, you know, whether we get busier because of kids and getting married and you know, your home life becomes like you just don't have the flexibility you used to have. I think I was kind of forced into it where I started getting it. But then what happened was you you notice the freedom you get from planning your day and from putting it out there. And all of a sudden that becomes a very big carrot. Like now I I know that if I can come in here and get all this done by 9 30, I'm good, right? I gotta knock out some client appointments after that. Brother or not, my day is good. Sure. And I really enjoy that part of it.

Mental Bandwidth: Focus on the Right Things

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Yeah. Nope, that that's a great point. So I'm gonna add a third one here. And and I know you and I both see this, see this often, but I think being self-aware of where you spend your mental bandwidth is another spot where I see a lot of people have blind spots that cost them so much from the standpoint of overall enjoyment with a career, but also just success in general. So when I say bandwidth, we can only focus our attention on so many things during the day, whether those are positive, whether they're negative. And I think we have to do an inventory of am I focusing on the right things or am I allowing myself to get derailed emotionally because I'm focusing on the wrong things? So to me, it's very common to see people that are struggling and all they focus on are the things outside of their control. And there's times through three different districts that I've overseen, you can almost put people in, you can almost split it down the middle and or maybe not even quite down the middle, but you can put people in one group or the other, and they're focused on underwriting decisions, underwriting processes, systems, uh, what's working, what's not working. And they'll spend all day and they'll focus on all of these things that should be talked about, right? There's a certain time. There's a lot of companies that have advisory committees, there's certain times you're in the right rooms to talk about what the issues are. I'm not saying ignore those things, but there's a time and a place. But if all day, if all people do is they focus on what's outside of their control, what's broken, what should be fixed, and they don't focus on their own business and how they can all of a sudden play in the day the right way, who the next hire should be, how can they improve their uh their process of becoming a discussion partner? The things that really generate a lot more client satisfaction, more revenue for the business, I see that being a huge piece that gets repeated time and time again. I have certain people, uh, with all due respect over the course of the last 12 years that when when the phone rings and I see it's them, I I know what's coming. It's never going to be an introspective question of how they can improve. It's gonna be, I look at it and I think, uh, what's what's broken that we can't fix today fix today? And that's and that's not a uh that's not a dig or a criticism. It's just those people tend to be unhappy.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Yeah, I mean, listen, I know you you're in leadership and and I'm in the field, but I I I mean it's nasty out there. Right. Like it is. And I I think there's a boilerplate answer from leadership, like, oh, you know, don't don't hang out in the muck and mire because it's all you know negative and you're never to be positive. So you hear that and you hear that enough that you're like, what we hear in the field is stop complaining. Right. Right? Stop complaining. You know, somebody's doing it well. Man, there's some very valid arguments about some really weird decisions going on in the industry in a lot of companies. Sure. That's kind of like, hey, can we acknowledge this? And I don't think that a lot of companies, um force me, I work with one that I think does a relatively good job of it, but of admitting, hey, we're messing up or we messed up. It's usually, hey, do more of this, quote more of this, do more, meet with more people, you know, stop being negative. And it's like, okay, but can we agree to acknowledge some of that too? So I do wish you know we saw it. Now, now that we've said that, you know, the the old thing that our parents used to tell us, like, show me the five people you hang out with and I'll show you your future, right? When we were hanging out with the fun kids. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

We were the fun kids. They were hanging out with us.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah, hopefully two, we weren't two of the five, right? But but the question becomes here is like, it's actually real. Like you show me the five either agents or leaders, whoever you hang out with the most, and who you you know, who you're gonna text. Like I'm sitting here right now, I got a text from somebody that I work with, very positive person. I don't even have to see it, I haven't seen the preview. I know it's gonna be positive. And and those people fill up the cup, right? Like that that's a person that's gonna make me feel good about what's going on. It might be a tough question, but it's it's it's gonna be from a how do we solve this? Yes. And I've got another text that I got this morning, I still haven't even read it yet, because I know it's gonna be negative. They're gonna tell me the sky has fallen, everything's wrong, underwriting is stupid, leadership is dumb. You know, if only for this, they would do great. And it's like, you know, so I I do see both sides of the coin. It's really, really tough to be an independent contractor, to be a business, you know, agency owner, and then hear, well, it's not that bad, just be positive, you know, nothing's wrong. But then you look at it, you're like, actually, if I hang out with the negatives, I turn negative. So I see both sides of it, man. I really do. I think it's uh it's a difficult balance to weave.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yeah, and I think from a leadership perspective and speaking from a corporate perspective, there's not a lot of corporate transparency across pretty much all sales industries, right? It's it's as if their job is to sugarcoat up top and then to drip market sugarcoating all the way down. And I agree with you to get people to rally, you've got to be able to say, hey, this is screwed up and you're not imagining things, right? We're not, we're not saying you're seeing ghosts that don't exist. So I I totally agree. There, there's one thing to act as if that's not happening, or to say just ignore it and pretend it's not. But one thing to acknowledge it, know where to actually vent and then figure out for your own best self-interest, how can I proceed through the day and not get to where that's all I obsess over, and it takes away from my ability to enjoy my life and build my business.

Making Mountains Out of Molehills

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah, we talked about bad habits, and and you know when you said that, I was thinking, I'm like, the people that make a mountain out of a molehill. You know, the people that will have something small go wrong in the scheme of things and let it just derail their week, their their month, their year. Ah, back in January, they turned down that habitational risk. And if they hadn't have done that, I would have got I would have been a good start and I would have made it all. And it's like it was one thing. Yeah. You know, I mean, how people take one small thing. We we talk a lot about fear, and you and I have shared about, you know, kind of mental health and that stuff, but like it's something crazy, like 97% of the things that we worry about don't come true. Like we know that internally, but then like we'll have something that that actually sucks. Like, oh, they declined this or they don't want this. Okay, move on. Like dwelling on it's not gonna bring it back, it's not gonna fix it. But I I would say a really bad habit that I I whether you're doing this for 30 years or 30 days, like making a mountain out of a molehill will kill your week. It'll kill your month. Like, admit it sucked, move on.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Like, find the next one. Yes. And and you know, going back, what we're talking about here again is just self-awareness. Because you've done that, you've had times where something happened three days ago and you're still holding on to it or three months ago. I have too. As human beings, that's just part of what we do. But once you can acknowledge or notice, hey, look, I'm allowing that that underwriting decision. Um, I remember going back 15 years ago. I had I had a case that was going to pay me the most commission I've I've ever seen. And the client needed it and it was a great fit and they declined it. And it threw me for about a seven-week loop. I'm not joking. For seven weeks, I didn't want to run an appointment, but I didn't realize that I had just spiraled because of that. Where if I could have looked in the mirror and said, hey, Joe, look what you're look what you're doing to yourself, I could have pulled myself out of it. So to your point, I think that's right on. And I think that's part of being introspective and saying, How am I feeling? Why am I feeling this way? Is that a is is that in the past? And then trying to reset sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah.

Josh's Personal Story: The $140K Case

SPEAKER_01 18:15

I mean, and and for those of you that have that have hung on this this whole episode, I'm gonna I'm gonna share one with you. I probably wouldn't have normally put on here. I was newer, and you just, you know, inspired me to tell you this. I was probably three, four years in. You know my my fast start. Like I had my first two years, right? National money during the year, first two, everybody's, hey, come be a manager, do this. Well, I had a large farm estate planning case. And the guy comes in and it's gonna be an SUL. And and for those of you in the industry, you know, large premium, at this point in the game, I'm I'm probably 28, 29. Premium on this is $140,000 a year. And and the couple says, yes, let's do it. Right? So what's the first thing you do when you're a producer, right? And you you and you take an application for $140,000 a year premium. You you mentally calculate the commission. Right, you do. Don't pretend you don't do this. What's but what's the real thing? You go home, man, I told my wife right away. Oh, baby, we're gonna be able to pay off that. Hey, we're gonna we're gonna get the new car, uh, we're gonna put that money back in savings that we're going to, uh, you know, we have a better Christmas. We can we can, you know, get the nicer whatever. Right. We're not gonna change our life. But I went home and told her right away. Seven weeks later, we finally get a around to declining that contract. They placed it with another provider in 10 days.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

So some dude just made a killing. He walks in, does whatever. So what do I do? Man, I get all in my feelings. Sure. I'll show it to, I'll show it to you guys. So I waited and paid for the minimum amount of life insurance contracts for that year on the last day of the year to stick it to the man and show him that I'm the you know, and it was fine. I've never missed the trips, never missed the top 50 thing. And my uncle goes, Hey, you you done pouting? And I'm what do you mean? I showed them. I he goes, Boy, you really stuck it to him by not making any money this year. Like, well, you really, you really they're talking about you at home office. He's like, No, they're not. They don't care. Like somebody else did that. Like, you're just hurting yourself and your clients and your family by not getting back on there. But I ate that thing for probably Joe, it must have been five months. And I let it ruin the entire year. So I'll share that with you. If anybody's ever had one of those, man, they suck. They can, they can gut punch you and make you just rethink everything about where you're at. So I I totally get it if you've ever had that happen to you.

Wrap Up & Call to Action

SPEAKER_00 20:28

For sure. Well, with that said, if you have anything that comes to mind for yourself that you've seen and you're watching this, don't hesitate to share in the comments of you know the the habits that you're seeing that have cost you in the past that the people can improve on because learning from each other is how everyone's going to get better. So, with that said, anything you want to add, Josh?

SPEAKER_01 20:49

No, appreciate everybody. Again, the comments. Uh, the sharing has been great. Uh, thanks for reaching out. I've probably talked to people from eight different companies in the last you know week or two. Just love hearing from you all and uh stay in touch. Sounds great.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Thanks.